A russian to explain what is happening?

myoung11: "Even if this coup does fail it will almost certainly lead to the Russian invasion of Ukraine failing." This brings up a chicken and egg question. Is the Prigozhin-Russian MOD fallout a consequence of the Russian failure in Ukraine, or a significant, possibly decisive factor in Russia losing the war? Possibly a bit of both, but I'm no expert. And it is certainly not clear to me that either side is perilously close to losing the ground war anyways.
Does anyone here remember the Great War of 1914-1918? One doesn't have to look very far to find contemporary Russian commanders who resemble Cadorna, von Hotzendorf and Haig. And would it really surprise anyone if, in four year's time, the front lines are largely the same as they are today? That's the scary thing. That this war may drag on and on.

Just an afterthought: if Wagner troops that have been bled white can make it to Rostov-on-Don, why not the Ukrainians? They're better led, better motivated, and have NATO support.

Ukrainians are not interested at all in attacking Russia.

They do their best to end the war, not to attack Russia.

Let me repost three tweets of Garry Kasparov here:

"Please keep in mind that even more than usual, everything coming out of the Kremlin, and Russian generally, will be lies. It's instinctive and about control. Such people would not admit they were drowning to a lifeguard."

"As I said, there is no Russian state, no political chain of command, and total failure in Ukraine has exposed that. Who will obey whose orders now? If Prigozhin is still alive and free in 24 hours, we will have entered a new reality."

"Don't wonder what will happen if Russia collapses. It already did! Years ago. It's not a state, it's a mafia front with factions fighting each other for money, resources, and power."

And a quote of Andrei Piontkovsky:
"You thought Russia was going to become North Korea? Surprise, it's Sudan!"

Btw, Prigozhin has rendered Putin‘s main narrative wrong. The Ukraine was no threat to Russia.

My view is that the Wagner boss might has seen that the only thing they can achieve in Ucraine is to slaughter and to be slaughtered endlessly, where there is no end cause the rest of the world will support Ucraine with weapon for ever. So he has seen only two solutions for rusisia, Ucraine, himself and all humans. To either surrender to the ucrainian soldiers and fight with them against the russian army. Or run straight into Russia and try to take over Russia by their own. He picked the last alternative. Actually think about it. The wagner boss is probably quite smart and has come to the conclusion that there is only one end to all the meaningless killlling. To take down Putin and his regime, either by wagner-Group alone, or on team with the Ucraine army and people. He now wants peace and love for once cause the alternative is an endless evilness, in just only my opinion.

Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

"Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow.

Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags."

AUDIO: t.me/Prigozhin_hat/3812

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wrote on Telegram on Saturday that the events in Russia show how politically unstable Russia is.

«- Russia has long masked its weakness and idiocy with propaganda. No lie can hide it, he writes.»

Just hope that Putin doesn’t push the nuke button when he sees the Wagners outside his window. Hopefully someone can take him down asap.

@verylate said in #11:
> myoung11: "Even if this coup does fail it will almost certainly lead to the Russian invasion of Ukraine failing." This brings up a chicken and egg question. Is the Prigozhin-Russian MOD fallout a consequence of the Russian failure in Ukraine, or a significant, possibly decisive factor in Russia losing the war? Possibly a bit of both, but I'm no expert. And it is certainly not clear to me that either side is perilously close to losing the ground war anyways.
> Does anyone here remember the Great War of 1914-1918? One doesn't have to look very far to find contemporary Russian commanders who resemble Cadorna, von Hotzendorf and Haig. And would it really surprise anyone if, in four year's time, the front lines are largely the same as they are today? That's the scary thing. That this war may drag on and on.
You might be right but if Wagner isn’t defeated in the next 48 hours the frontline Russian troops are fighting on might be in Moscow rather than in the Donbas

Medvedev reportedly evacuated from Moscow with family.